Mastering the Caregiver Employment Cycle from Hiring to Performance Management and Termination

Mastering the Caregiver Employment Cycle from Hiring to Performance Management and Termination

00:00:07.130 –> 00:00:16.029
Dennis Gill: Right. So Welcome to CareSmartz360 On Air, a home care podcast. I’m Dennis Gill, senior sales consultant at Caresmartz.

00:00:16.340 –> 00:00:30.959
Dennis Gill: So today we are diving deep into the world of legal advice for home care agencies, and who better to guide us than the man himself? Bob King, the legal guru behind. Legally Nanny.

00:00:32.509 –> 00:00:35.809
Bob King: Thank you very much for that kind introduction. I appreciate those with those words.

00:00:35.810 –> 00:00:46.300
Dennis Gill: No, no, you you you! That’s just the kind words. And we also always wanted to introduce you like this. So Bob has practiced law in Orange County before it was cool.

00:00:46.450 –> 00:00:55.590
Dennis Gill: But wait, there’s more. He’s the founder of Legally Nanny, which is basically the legal equivalent of a Nanny’s superhero cave.

00:00:58.140 –> 00:01:09.789
Dennis Gill: So whether you’re dealing with the tricky termination, navigating wage and hour laws, or just want to make sure your home care handbook is up to snuff. Bob’s got your back.

00:01:10.390 –> 00:01:18.760
Dennis Gill: So tune in to hear his expert advice and get ready to level up your legal knowledge, so welcome to the podcast Bob.

00:01:19.430 –> 00:01:23.139
Bob King: Well, thank you very much. It’s great to be here. I appreciate that kind introduction.

00:01:23.160 –> 00:01:39.980
Bob King: The irony of legally, Nanny, is that we started it. Oh, 22 years ago, because we were hiring a nanny and wanted to do everything legally. And now almost all of our work is home care. And so people say, we should rebrand and call ourselves legally, Granny, you know, to stay up with the times.

00:01:39.980 –> 00:01:42.660
Dennis Gill: You have that got that I completely understand, though. But

00:01:42.660 –> 00:01:52.710
Bob King: No, we represent home care agencies, nanny agencies and family employers. So basically, anyone who works in the home, we represent the employer in those instances.

00:01:53.270 –> 00:02:09.660
Dennis Gill: Perfect. Got that? Got that? Got your point? All right. So let’s straight away. Get into the questions that we have dived in. So firstly, 1st thing first, st what are the questions you can and can’t ask the prospective caregivers during the interview process.

00:02:10.280 –> 00:02:13.230
Bob King: Right? So that’s a great question. And

00:02:13.720 –> 00:02:42.899
Bob King: what I want to tell people is you should just ask the questions that you feel will give you the best answer for how they’re going to be a caregiver so frequently. The best questions are narrative questions. Why do you want to be a caregiver. What experience do you have in caregiving? Those sort of broad, open-ended questions are excellent. Where you get into trouble is, if you ask any questions that involve any legally protected characteristics or practices.

00:02:42.900 –> 00:02:51.049
Bob King: So that’s all of the basic things that would come to mind race, age, religion. But here’s an important one.

00:02:51.050 –> 00:03:08.320
Bob King: You can staff based on gender and gender. Normally, you can’t make any sort of hiring decisions. If you were working in an office or anything like that, you couldn’t in home care, you can, and that’s an important distinction. As long as the case involves bathing, dressing, or personal care.

00:03:08.320 –> 00:03:31.879
Bob King: And I’ve had cases where male caregivers sue home care agencies because they claim they’re being discriminated against based on gender. So it is something that occurs and I’m warning home care agencies. The critical thing is, if you’re going to staff based on gender, make sure there’s a notation that there’s bathing, dressing, or personal care involved so that you don’t run into those problems.

00:03:32.290 –> 00:03:57.539
Bob King: But again, and also, here’s the thing, Dennis. And by the way, I like to talk so this could go a while. But it’s truly all in how you say it. So, for example, I believe that most people are good people. They just don’t know how to word things correctly, so they may say, for example, we want a Mexican caregiver. And you say, Well, why do you want a Mexican caregiver? And they’ll say, Well, mom only speaks Spanish. Okay, that’s totally cool.

00:03:57.540 –> 00:03:57.870
Dennis Gill: There!

00:03:57.870 –> 00:04:12.920
Bob King: Not phrased correctly. So we’ll say Spanish speaker required, or like the funniest one I have is, oh, well, we want a Jewish caregiver. Why? Because we keep a kosher house. Okay. Knowledge of Kosher House required. Who do you think you’re going to get right? So.

00:04:12.920 –> 00:04:14.330
Dennis Gill: Yeah, so that’s the key.

00:04:14.330 –> 00:04:43.139
Bob King: Thing in terms of, if you phrase the question based on job legitimate job based requirements, you’re totally fine. That’s legal. It’s just. You cannot try and ferret out any marital status is another issue. You can’t ask, you know. Do you have your own children, or anything like that? You can’t go into medical histories. This is not a dating site. So you’re not going to ask about height and weight and eye color, and any of that sort of stuff right?

00:04:43.140 –> 00:04:43.520
Dennis Gill: I drive.

00:04:43.520 –> 00:04:47.190
Bob King: You’re going to ask the questions you need

00:04:47.230 –> 00:04:53.080
Bob King: to find the best caregiver who has the experience, and frankly, the passion for your business.

00:04:53.310 –> 00:04:54.280
Bob King: There you go.

00:04:54.430 –> 00:05:05.979
Dennis Gill: Rightly said, rightly said, and also the phrasing can be a very important aspect. So listeners and the home care agency owners, whoever are listening to our podcast please make a note of that.

00:05:06.670 –> 00:05:07.400
Bob King: Exactly right.

00:05:07.550 –> 00:05:12.909
Dennis Gill: Okay? So what are the best practices to document caregiver performance issues according to you.

00:05:13.390 –> 00:05:43.329
Bob King: Okay? So the critical thing, you know they there’s that old phrase, diamonds are a girl’s best friend. Documents are a lawyer’s best friend. Okay? And it’s absolutely critical. And this happens, without exaggeration, on a weekly basis I will get a call from a home care agency owner. That’ll say, Susie’s been a terrible caregiver. She’s been late, she’s unprofessional blah blah blah. And we and today she told us that we want to fire her. And today she told us, she’s pregnant. What do we do? Okay?

00:05:43.330 –> 00:05:48.550
Bob King: And then, you say, is there any documentation of any of this in the file? Well, no.

00:05:48.570 –> 00:06:06.989
Bob King: okay. Well, that’s a problem, because you’re going to say she’s going to tell you. She tells you she’s pregnant. And literally the next day you’re going to fire her. What do you think that looks like, even if you have good reasons? But you don’t have good reasons if it’s not documented. So what I say to home care agency owners is.

00:06:07.250 –> 00:06:16.880
Bob King: have those hard conversations. I understand they’re difficult because you don’t want to offend people, or they’re just challenging to say, Hey, Dennis, you could be doing this better right.

00:06:16.930 –> 00:06:34.950
Bob King: But again, it doesn’t have to be phrased like Dennis. You’re doing this wrong. It can be like Dennis. This is how you do things better. Okay? And then make a note of it in the file. Even those verbal counseling sessions should have some sort of note in the person’s personnel file, and what I say is.

00:06:35.550 –> 00:06:55.530
Bob King: have a performance improvement plan in place. A pip is terrific because it specifies what the problems are. It outlines the deliverables, and it gives a deadline, and if they don’t meet those deliverables by that deadline, you can take disciplinary action up to and including termination. And that’s what you want to do. So you want to have

00:06:55.530 –> 00:07:19.409
Bob King: documentation in writing for even verbal counseling sessions. And then it. Typically, it’s verbal, a 1st written warning, a final written warning. And then they’re fired. I like to see that documentation. You don’t have to go through that whole process. Okay, obviously, if someone abuses the client or steals from a client, you can fire them right away. Okay? And the other thing I would tell people is. And this happens again. This happened just in the case recently.

00:07:20.360 –> 00:07:23.500
Bob King: If you have a good reason for firing, someone

00:07:23.550 –> 00:07:31.470
Bob King: always note it on the termination document always, always, because otherwise, if you say we’re terminating your at will employment?

00:07:31.470 –> 00:07:54.169
Bob King: Well, that leaves open a lot of speculation and a lot of questions, doesn’t it? Why did you do it? Was it discrimination? Was it retaliation? Any of these sorts of reasons? If you say instead, we’re terminating your employment? Because you were late 3 times in the last 2 weeks, or because you acted unprofessionally by yelling at a coworker, or whatever it may be. Then you’ve got your reason in black and white, right there to

00:07:54.170 –> 00:07:56.219
Bob King: explain and to rebut

00:07:56.320 –> 00:08:06.469
Bob King: any sort of cause of action for discrimination, retaliation, etc. So document everything from verbal counseling. Sessions do performance improvement plans.

00:08:06.500 –> 00:08:14.820
Bob King: verbal first, set final warnings, and then always specify in the termination. Notice why you’re terminating somebody.

00:08:16.180 –> 00:08:22.200
Dennis Gill: Right, he said. So listeners, please make a point of that and document everything.
00:08:22.670 –> 00:08:50.189
Bob King: Exactly. We hope you never have to do it. But the point is, if you document the good you should document the bad. Otherwise you’ve got a file and plaintiffs, lawyers, plaintiff’s lawyers love documents as much as defense lawyers, because they’ll go through it, and they’ll say, Well, gee! Here’s the review. That was just a couple of months ago, and there’s nothing negative there, or here’s a commendation from a client. Right? They’ll always get that like, or here’s a yelp review where the caregiver was mentioned. She must have been a star.

00:08:50.190 –> 00:09:05.700
Bob King: And yet you fired her right so that they can pile up a stack of really good documents, and you’ll have nothing because you didn’t want to butt heads, or you didn’t want to be confrontational or hurt somebody’s feelings. And then you’ve got a real problem.

00:09:07.200 –> 00:09:08.680
Dennis Gill: Point got the point.

00:09:08.930 –> 00:09:22.589
Dennis Gill: Okay, maybe link to that. The next question that how can agencies stay compliant with the federal, State and local labor and employment laws, especially in terms of caregiver, wages, hours and benefits.

00:09:22.950 –> 00:09:26.340
Bob King: Right. It’s it’s constantly changing, and it’s

00:09:26.810 –> 00:09:39.609
Bob King: incredibly difficult. And so what I would say to people is, 1st and foremost, I’m not here to plug our firm. Okay, but find a lawyer that you’re comfortable with. Who knows the home care space wherever you are.

00:09:39.690 –> 00:09:55.579
Bob King: and stick with that person, because that person will provide you with updates and that. And just like you don’t want to. If you have a headache. The last thing you want to do is Google medical symptoms for headache, because you’ll think you have dengue fever afterwards. Right.

00:09:55.580 –> 00:09:56.040
Dennis Gill: It’s the same.

00:09:56.040 –> 00:09:59.259
Bob King: Thing. Please don’t Google legal issues.

00:09:59.290 –> 00:10:08.069
Bob King: Invariably AI will be wrong or not included like a good example is in the State of California. You’re required to pay overtime

00:10:08.290 –> 00:10:11.830
Bob King: 2 caregivers who are personal attendants, working in a private home.

00:10:11.850 –> 00:10:34.729
Bob King: And see, there’s all these little caveats. I sound like a lawyer just explaining this example. But it’s true. If they spend 80% of their time supervising, feeding and dressing, and they’re working in a private home, they’re considered personal attendance. If they meet that test, they’re entitled to overtime after 9 h in a day and after 45 h in a week under California law. So you Google, that AI will spit out 9, 45. That’s wrong.

00:10:34.730 –> 00:10:46.209
Bob King: Why? Because under Federal law caregivers are entitled to overtime after 40 h in a week. So the correct metric is 9 and 40. But you wouldn’t get that if you googled it, because Google’s wrong.

00:10:46.210 –> 00:11:00.850
Bob King: So what we do is I don’t have time to write newsletters. My clients generally don’t have time to read them. Instead, we put it on our socials, Facebook, Linkedin and X on a regular basis. You will get updates from us about

00:11:01.590 –> 00:11:22.300
Bob King: all the laws that impact your home care agency on a Federal State and local level. I’ll also say, as a shout out to our California listeners, if you comply with California law, you can almost always ignore Federal law, because California law is so strict and so employee friendly like. For example, there’s a lot of Kerfuffle about non-compete agreements

00:11:22.560 –> 00:11:46.270
Bob King: non-compete agreements have been illegal in California for as long as I can remember and maybe on a Federal level, they may be becoming impermissible. But in California, if that’s where you are, don’t worry about those Federal developments so much, because California law already is far more protective. It’s not always true, as we said on the overtime. In that instance, Federal law is more generous, but, generally speaking.

00:11:46.270 –> 00:12:09.240
Bob King: don’t be so concerned about Federal law, or you can. You can stay up to date on it. Obviously, that’s important. However, make sure that you’re also aware of Federal. I’m sorry state, and even local laws like here in California, there’s probably 20 plus jurisdictions that have local minimum wages. There’s half a dozen that have local sick leave laws. Okay? And so you stay up to date on all that. How do you do it?

00:12:09.240 –> 00:12:25.630
Bob King: Find a lawyer who can keep you up to date, follow us on our socials. Our socials will always keep you up to date, and the last thing I would tell you is, go to conferences. Okay. The Home Care Association of America, where I will be in September, and where you I’m sorry in October, and where you will be as well.

00:12:25.930 –> 00:12:34.979
Bob King: is a great resource to get all of your legal knowledge. And then there are State associations as well that provide programs.

00:12:35.300 –> 00:12:41.380
Bob King: Staying involved is not just some sort of civic duty rah-rah staying involved actually keeps you up to date

00:12:41.580 –> 00:13:03.979
Bob King: by going to those meetings, going to those conferences and getting the legal knowledge you need. And that’s what you have to do. Otherwise the law changes so quickly like, for example, in January of this year, all I did was update handbooks, that’s all I did. I mean, it was just it was. It was a massive trove of work, and it’s because the law changed so drastically. It required a slew of updates, and you see it now, like

00:13:04.380 –> 00:13:28.309
Bob King: there was a required notice on Valentine’s Day of all days to go out in California about non-compete agreements. There’s a new healthcare minimum wage that just got enacted in California and was effective yesterday. So it’s not just the beginning of the year or certain times. It’s all throughout the year. Life changes to stay up to date with a good lawyer who you like, follow us on socials, go to conferences. That’s the way to do it.

00:13:29.090 –> 00:13:35.030
Dennis Gill: So, listeners, we have the right person over here, so any help required you can contact Bob.

00:13:35.380 –> 00:13:39.939
Bob King: And we give it away for free. And I’m not kidding. Follow us on our
00:13:40.780 –> 00:14:05.139
Bob King: like people. Ask us questions that are billable, and that’s great. I’ll bill you for it. But instead, if you want to, just get the answer for free, please go to our socials. And, by the way, when we do that, we also post a link to the law. Okay? So if there’s a question that’s not answered necessarily. Of course you can call us, we’re always happy to talk. However, I will give you the link directly to the source, so you can look at it yourself, and that’s important, because sometimes

00:14:05.200 –> 00:14:09.539
Bob King: summaries or snippets aren’t accurate, or don’t include all the situations.

00:14:09.540 –> 00:14:09.870
Dennis Gill: I’m gonna give.

00:14:09.870 –> 00:14:13.239
Bob King: You the source material with a link that you can go to for free.

00:14:13.840 –> 00:14:14.986
Dennis Gill: Perfect, perfect.

00:14:16.000 –> 00:14:17.240
Dennis Gill: Okay.

00:14:17.590 –> 00:14:28.229
Dennis Gill: Another thing, that what are the legal implications and best practices for terminating caregiver employment, including documentation and communication requirements. I think you answered it half earlier, so.

00:14:28.230 –> 00:14:33.110
Bob King: Right, and I’m right. But I want to go through that because here’s the thing. It’s not just.

00:14:34.439 –> 00:14:38.629
Bob King: Tell them why, if you have a good reason. Okay, if you.

00:14:38.640 –> 00:15:01.989
Bob King: If you don’t have a good reason, then it’s sort of like dating. You can say you’re not a good fit. It’s not you. It’s me, whatever. I don’t really care if you, if it’s just a personality conflict, or whatever I would actually say, it’s personality conflict. But, generally speaking, if you’ve got a reason, give it to them. If you don’t, just you want to just carefully terminate their employment and just say it. We’re terminating your out will employment.

00:15:02.060 –> 00:15:22.549
Bob King: but that’s that’s half of it. The other half of it is, it is essential to comply with state and local laws regarding termination. For example, here in California, the way many agencies get in trouble is, they say, on a Tuesday you’re fired. And, by the way, your final paycheck will hit with your normal, direct deposit on Friday.

00:15:22.590 –> 00:15:30.410
Bob King: That’s illegal. Okay. Under California law, you have to pay people all wages owed at the time of termination, and if you don’t.

00:15:30.690 –> 00:15:41.119
Bob King: you can get hit with up to 30 days penalties. And so clients will be like, oh, no, I’m gonna get hit with a month’s worth of wages. And it’s like, No, actually, it’s worse because it’s 30 days of wages.

00:15:41.980 –> 00:15:44.450
Bob King: which is even worse, because that’s more than a month, right?

00:15:44.450 –> 00:15:45.670
Dennis Gill: More than a month. Yeah.

00:15:45.670 –> 00:15:58.469
Bob King: Make sure you comply with your state requirements for paying people in California. As I said, it’s all wages owed at the time of termination, which is why, oftentimes people will be put on unpaid administrative leave.

00:15:58.680 –> 00:16:07.000
Bob King: The employer is not investigating things. They are waiting for their payroll department to cut the check and and finalize things, and in addition to

00:16:07.090 –> 00:16:12.069
Bob King: the termination, write up and explaining why and the final paycheck.

00:16:12.530 –> 00:16:15.349
Bob King: there’s 1 more critical component to termination.

00:16:15.430 –> 00:16:34.860
Bob King: Usually there is documentation that has to be provided to an employee. So here in California, there’s 3 documents. There’s a notice to employee. It’s called notice to employees to change in relationship. And many states have this form, and it’s designed for unemployment. And the form simply has the employee’s name and social security number on it.

00:16:34.860 –> 00:16:55.810
Bob King: and it states the day of termination and the reason for termination, and then the employer’s name at the bottom. Why? Because the employee, when he or she files for unemployment is going to submit that form. Okay, so it’s critically important that you give them that notice to employees changing relationship. That’s the name of the form in California. But it’s a similar form in most States.

00:16:55.810 –> 00:17:14.800
Bob King: There’s also a booklet about programs for the unemployed that you’re required by law to give them. And then there’s a notice about health insurance. That’s another really critical thing. Okay, so even if you don’t provide health insurance in California. You’re required to provide a notice. And certainly, if you do, you’re required to provide those cobra notices.

00:17:14.800 –> 00:17:26.919
Bob King: And so here’s the problem. Many employers think they’re offloading liability because they’re firing someone. But if you fail to take these critical steps literally, each step that you fail to do you incur more liability.

00:17:27.000 –> 00:17:34.829
Bob King: So remember, when you terminate somebody, the 3 things are the termination. Notice the paycheck.

00:17:34.910 –> 00:17:44.969
Bob King: and all the other required state and local documents that you have to give them when you terminate them. It should be an easy packet for your Hr. Department to deliver.

00:17:45.070 –> 00:17:53.810
Bob King: but it’s essential that the timeliness of it occur at the instant of termination. And, by the way, these don’t even have to be

00:17:53.850 –> 00:17:58.569
Bob King: paper copies, you can email these documents. That’s completely fine.

00:17:59.240 –> 00:18:13.059
Bob King: Another thing that people often overlook with termination is, I strongly recommend that you sit down with the person. Usually there should be 2 of you on your side of the table, because it’s important to have a witness. Okay? And when you have this talk.

00:18:13.150 –> 00:18:19.939
Bob King: you explain to them why you terminate them. It’s just it is again, like dating. Does somebody want to be broken up with over a text?

00:18:20.000 –> 00:18:24.359
Bob King: I always tell people treat someone with respect. Okay, because

00:18:24.390 –> 00:18:33.179
Bob King: a happy employer, or at least an employee who is heard is less likely to sue. So in that final termination meeting, you ask them.

00:18:33.180 –> 00:18:55.600
Bob King: Is there anything you want to tell us? And so often they just want to be heard. They want to get something off their chest, and they feel relieved. And then you take it constructively. You don’t dismiss it, even if you disagree with it. You thank them for raising it, and you say I’ll look into that, or we’ll make that change, or whatever we will investigate or evaluate that suggestion. That’s a good idea, and I appreciate you bringing it forward

00:18:55.640 –> 00:19:12.649
Bob King: also super important. Make a list of all of your property that the employee has, and then collect it at the time of that termination meeting. That’s another reason why you want to do this in person as opposed to phone email or text, you want to get your stuff back. Okay.

00:19:12.650 –> 00:19:12.970
Dennis Gill: Yeah.

00:19:12.970 –> 00:19:19.589
Bob King: And your stuff might be a T-shirt like you’re wearing, that has your company logo in it that you don’t want an employee who’s no longer working.

00:19:19.630 –> 00:19:37.919
Bob King: giving it back to you. Right? So when you schedule the termination meeting, you say. And, Dennis, here’s a list of our company property that we expect to be returned to us at this meeting. It’s very helpful, and if it’s an office employee you want to get your laptop back, and the last thing is, and people forget about this because they’re so rushed. But it’s all these important details.

00:19:38.680 –> 00:19:45.490
Bob King: You want to turn off their email and cut off any access pass codes, all of that sort of stuff. Cut it off

00:19:45.490 –> 00:20:10.409
Bob King: because employees can be malicious. They’ll send an email from their, you know, ABC. Home care agency, you know, saying the most outrageous things because they have access to it, or they’ll stick a USB drive into something and download your confidential information. So really, really important at the instant you fire them to cut off all of their electronic access and monitor what they’re doing. Have your it.

00:20:10.410 –> 00:20:20.439
Bob King: people monitor what they’re doing. So firing somebody isn’t just. You’re fired. It’s following all these procedures to make sure that it’s done in a dignified way

00:20:20.590 –> 00:20:24.269
Bob King: to respect the employee, but also to protect your agency.

00:20:25.700 –> 00:20:33.950
Dennis Gill: Right? Right? Obviously this will be a great help to all our listeners. All the agency owners who will be keeping a track of this from now on.

00:20:34.550 –> 00:20:39.239
Bob King: Well, it seems obvious. But here’s the thing. In the heat of the moment. You forget about these things.

00:20:39.240 –> 00:20:40.999
Dennis Gill: Yeah, the basic thing, just the basic.

00:20:41.000 –> 00:21:05.960
Bob King: Right, you forget. Oh, my gosh! We didn’t change the passcode, you know, or whatever it is, or she still has an office key, or she’s wearing my T-shirt in a video bashing. My company, you know, I mean, or whatever it may be, you want to get all that, or or I’ve seen this, too. I’ve seen caregivers go back into facilities because they still have their name tag, and try and recruit clients privately, and the only way they get access into that facility because the facility may not

00:21:05.960 –> 00:21:14.380
Bob King: even know you fired the caregiver because they’ve still got their ABC. Home. And, by the way, I’m not referencing. If there is an ABC. Home Care Agency out there, I’m not referencing you in particular.

00:21:14.710 –> 00:21:27.890
Bob King: I would call it Xyz Home Care Agency, but they still have their badge, and they can still access the facility and recruit your clients. So it’s really really important for you to have a level head and to make a list, and to get it all back.

00:21:29.560 –> 00:21:44.249
Dennis Gill: Perfect perfect. Thank you. Thank you for that, Bob. And just one last thing from my side that how can we mitigate the risk of legal claims or disputes arising from caregiver employment, basically such as wrongful termination or discrimination lawsuits.

00:21:44.590 –> 00:21:45.900
Bob King: Sure. So

00:21:45.960 –> 00:21:54.449
Bob King: 1st and foremost, like I said, you want to treat them with respect and dignity on the way out the door. Okay, you want to let them be heard. That’s the most important part.

00:21:54.760 –> 00:21:58.780
Bob King: And then, secondly, while they’re employed with you, okay, even before that.

00:21:58.880 –> 00:22:00.440
Bob King: happy employees

00:22:00.710 –> 00:22:23.720
Bob King: aren’t litigious employees. Okay, happy employees generally don’t sue treat your employees well. I know it sounds so simplistic, but it’s the God’s honest truth. It’s the agency that has the annual holiday party, or that recognizes the caregiver of the month, or that where the owner just goes out of his way to to send a quick text

00:22:23.730 –> 00:22:25.640
Bob King: to a caregiver to say.

00:22:25.840 –> 00:22:32.480
Bob King: great job with Mrs. Jones today, or I noticed that you’ve been on time 50 straight times.

00:22:32.500 –> 00:22:36.750
Bob King: Thank you. We and our clients appreciate that. It takes the owner

00:22:37.510 –> 00:22:50.020
Bob King: 15 seconds to do that. You can even have it the same script. And you just have a software program that alerts you when somebody hits these milestones 5,100 times, whatever it will show up on time, and you send them a quick text.

00:22:50.250 –> 00:22:55.770
Bob King: It means so very much to them. Okay, the next thing is, remember.

00:22:55.860 –> 00:23:09.609
Bob King: if you’re going to give your employee anything more monetarily than they’re entitled to. That’s great. Okay, I’m not saying you should always provide severance most of the time. It’s not necessary. You don’t have to do it legally. You’re fine if you don’t do it.

00:23:09.890 –> 00:23:30.749
Bob King: But if you’re going to pay somebody extra to say. And again I keep using you, Dennis. I’m not firing you in any way, but we’re going to keep using you as an example. Okay? So, so, Dennis, you’ve been a great employee. We appreciate everything you’ve done for us. We want to give you an extra $500 in your last paycheck, and you say thanks so much, and I would say to you, I would say that agency owner, hey?

00:23:30.870 –> 00:23:35.150
Bob King: You might as well take that $500 and throw it out the window because you just got nothing for it.

00:23:35.200 –> 00:23:59.650
Bob King: So if you’re going to pay anything extra. Please contact your attorney and get a severance agreement. A severance agreement is very simple. It’s just a waiver of claims, but it also has important provisions like confidentiality and non-disparagement, meaning you can’t share our confidential information, and you can’t say bad things about us. Okay, so and then and then they’ll say, oh, but I don’t want to complicate it.

00:24:00.450 –> 00:24:08.469
Bob King: and I always explain. Blame the lawyer. Always blame the lawyer. Okay, so I would say to you, Dennis, you know we really appreciate it.

00:24:08.700 –> 00:24:34.470
Bob King: We. You know, I wanted to give you this check, this check $500. I just wanted to give it to you straight away. But my fancy pants lawyer jumped up and down and said, I can’t give you this until you sign this document and this document, Dennis. It just says you’re not going to sue me. I know you’re not going to sue me. I’m not worried about it. You’re a good guy, but you got to sign it otherwise. My lawyer says I can’t release this check to you. I’m really sorry I wanted to fire the lawyer for years. He’s really expensive, and you know whatever. But.

00:24:34.470 –> 00:24:34.950
Dennis Gill: Call that? Yeah.

00:24:34.950 –> 00:24:38.679
Bob King: Whatever. Blame the lawyer, but get the signature

00:24:38.770 –> 00:24:56.800
Bob King: because you get the signature, and you’re generally bulletproof. That’s your best way to do it. Also be careful if you have a lot of employees and you’re doing a mass layoff. There is something called the Warren Act. WARN, that is a Federal law. But there’s also State versions of that, too.

00:24:56.800 –> 00:25:16.350
Bob King: If you’re doing a mass layoff, you have to give notice, and it’s a prescribed notice under Federal law. So if you’re closing your business, and you have, say, 100 employees or more, the Federal War and Act will be triggered. So please be aware of that. Okay? That’s mass layoff situations. But what I’m talking about here, generally speaking, is.

00:25:16.480 –> 00:25:22.699
Bob King: treat your employees right while you have them. Always be respectful out the door. And then the last thing is.

00:25:23.070 –> 00:25:25.530
Bob King: if you’re worried about a claim.

00:25:25.570 –> 00:25:51.789
Bob King: do a severance agreement, and that’s the beauty of the severance agreement. You’re already pushing other papers across the table. I already have to give you 3 different notices. So one more document is not going to be a big deal right? And then I give you that, and I say, and always always have the severance check ready right there. It’s like putting cheese in front of a mouse. You slide the check across the table and say, Dennis, you can take this right here right now, if you sign this document.

00:25:51.870 –> 00:25:56.810
Bob King: and it’s free money to you often caregivers live paycheck to paycheck, anyway.

00:25:56.810 –> 00:25:57.140
Dennis Gill: Yeah.

00:25:57.140 –> 00:26:04.040
Bob King: They weren’t going to sue you. They’ll sign that severance agreement. They’ll take that check because you’ve given them the incentive to do it right then and there.

00:26:04.080 –> 00:26:06.809
Bob King: So that’s my advice, for how you terminate an employee.

00:26:07.450 –> 00:26:08.939
Dennis Gill: Got that. Got that.

00:26:09.050 –> 00:26:14.669
Dennis Gill: So? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Really. Bob, for sharing your expertise today.

00:26:14.800 –> 00:26:28.520
Dennis Gill: And it might be definitely helpful for all the listeners agency owners anywhere you’re from and to our lovely audience. Thank you for tuning in until next time. I’m Dennis Gill signing off.

00:26:28.620 –> 00:26:30.110
Dennis Gill: Have a great one. Thank you.